Curse

Arcole · Feb 20, 2010, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Clinton

600/Smite would never dominate the elite areas. It always has and always would exist as a side option to the main farming builds. Its interesting to play and often not as profitable as other teams.

Max luxon/kurzick titles in a week is not profitable? And the point about it being interesting to play, there is no team aspect to it, it is simply made so 1 to 2 people can easily farm certain areas.

Killed u man · Feb 20, 2010, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

So PvE-only one of the critical changes.

Maybe I missed something here. Won't Exhausting/Blinding Powder just go on recharge after you use it the first time? How are you managing to use skills with recharges multiple time sin the same second?

I do, however, agree that it looks OP even without your 7-skill-activations-in-a-second combos that I don't understand.

My full comments coming tomorrow.

Using Offhand or Dual Attacks out of chain will be the same as a "fail", without the instant cast. They will recharge instantly, but won't count as being activated. They'll still cost energy tough.

Thus, you can simply use exhausting assault on any target (test it in temple if you don't believe me), and spam it as much as you want. Right now, tough, there isn't any known use to it, as it doesn't trigger on anything. (Not even Illusionary Weaponry)

With this update, as noted on wiki, it will trigger on demonic flesh, and result in 1 trigger of the skill per Exhausting Assault.

Same for blinding power. (It also recharges instantly)

Axeman002 · Feb 20, 2010, 04:02 PM // 16:02

meh i got all the important 26 titles on my sin the rest are spammable...ill do LDOA then maybe play dragons age till gw2 comes out...shame tho, i did enjoy farming GW.

Pandora's box · Feb 20, 2010, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

You're just saying that because you're bitter they realised it needs nerfing too. 600 Smite is just as bad. It allows you to 2 man LOTS of areas in the game. Not as many as SF, but that's why SF is getting nerfed too. 600 Smite needs it because it's too strong as well.

Guild Wars is a team game, as hinted by the name, NOT a solo/2 man game.

I think the reason many players are upset is that there seems to be a change of policy going on at Anet.
Starting with the first 55 monk build Anet always stated that they had no problems with solo playing and grinding, as long as it does not affect general gameplay too much (read 'game economy') or the fun of others. Changes were made to encourage more teamplay and make soloing harder, but never impossible.
What we see now is that there is an intention not only to destroy a solo build (SF) but also to make it impossible to grind in small 2-3 player teams. The question is: why? No doubt GW2 will include all changes to make grinding/soloing very hard if not impossible. So why already make those changes here? There is nothing to gain only to loose by forcing teamplay in final state of this game...

cthulhu reborn · Feb 20, 2010, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Well, UWSC was a bit ridiculous with SF, so I can see why they wanted to change that one.
I am mostly looking at the Rit and Necro changes and I am intrigued. I think a lot of people underestimate what some of these changes mean for a Channeling build for example. Channeling has a great mix of direct damage, spirits and energy gain. The new idea for Spirit Boon Strike is actually the most impressive change. 3 sec recharge makes it pretty spammable, doing damage and healing spirits at the same time. That could be a very good thing. Spirit Rift is now a 3 second AoE ending with cracked armour on the target and more spells become better to use. Now I don't know if it's going to be easy to do and if people will catch on to the possibilities here so I will say I'll have to wait and see what it's going to do for Rits in the end. I have 2 Rits myself and I am pretty happy with these changes as such.

The necro stuff I have to look at a bit more but there are some nices changes that I could see. Will at least make it interesting to revisit blood builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

I think the reason many players are upset is that there seems to be a change of policy going on at Anet.
Starting with the first 55 monk build Anet always stated that they had no problems with solo playing and grinding, as long as it does not affect general gameplay too much (read 'game economy') or the fun of others. Changes were made to encourage more teamplay and make soloing harder, but never impossible.
What we see now is that there is an intention not only to destroy a solo build (SF) but also to make it impossible to grind in small 2-3 player teams. The question is: why? No doubt GW2 will include all changes to make grinding/soloing very hard if not impossible. So why already make those changes here? There is nothing to gain only to loose by forcing teamplay in final state of this game...

I don't know about this. SF didn't use to be this good. It was buffed and as far as I'm concerned it's overbuffed. Since you can do all of PvE with H/H there's nothing forcing you to play with other players anyways but yes GW was designed as a team game. At the same time I do think that if certain builds are too effective it takes part of the fun out of the game. SF builds are simply too much, they are too powerful. Why would you then play anything else? It's not that the current SF is so good, it's that the other classes pale in comparison.
So let it be harder to make a solo build. As far as the smite build I haven't actually seen what exactly is going to be changed. So everybody here who's upset is jumping the gun. We don't even know what is going to be changed and whether the changes will make smiting/600 impossible or simply harder.

So all your talk about a new direction is premature as well. And in essence Anet already gave the circumstances where changes were needed as you described yourself. So I don't see that as Anet changing direction but rather them doing what they said they were going to do.

Also talking about GW2, they have already stated that the story line would be soloable for all classes but that there would be incentives to do it in group play. So I don't agree that Anet are changing their minds suddenly.

esthetic · Feb 20, 2010, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

You're just saying that because you're bitter they realised it needs nerfing too. 600 Smite is just as bad. It allows you to 2 man LOTS of areas in the game. Not as many as SF, but that's why SF is getting nerfed too. 600 Smite needs it because it's too strong as well.

Guild Wars is a team game, as hinted by the name, NOT a solo/2 man game.

And you are the GW How TO Play the Game police? Its a game ppl play the way they want to. They paid money for the game who are you to say how its to be played as long as they are within the rules of play. Man you must be a peach to be around!!

Shayne Hawke · Feb 20, 2010, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by esthetic

And you are the GW How TO Play the Game police? Its a game ppl play the way they want to. They paid money for the game who are you to say how its to be played as long as they are within the rules of play. Man you must be a peach to be around!!

No, it's a game that people play the way ANet lets them play, because not every single way that people wish to play the game is good for the game.

600/Smite is one of those ways that has been decided as not good for the game.

Killed u man · Feb 20, 2010, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by esthetic

And you are the GW How TO Play the Game police? Its a game ppl play the way they want to. They paid money for the game who are you to say how its to be played as long as they are within the rules of play. Man you must be a peach to be around!!

And if I want a button that kills all monsters instantly, and gives me all the loot directly to my inventory, I should have that aswell?

I have no problem with people playing the way they want to, but have you ever stopped to think about the consequences of farming?

By allowing such builds to exist, you're not giving people the option to farm areas for money, you're FORCING them.
Farming is the only reason prices got pushed down so much over the course of years. The influx of ecto's, shards and other materials have gone through the roof ever since they made 55 farming public. (and every farming build thereafter)

This means that any person who refuses to use xx farm build simply won't have money to buy xx item. Hence, one person farming = everyone farming.

Trub · Feb 20, 2010, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by esthetic

And you are the GW How TO Play the Game police? Its a game ppl play the way they want to. They paid money for the game who are you to say how its to be played as long as they are within the rules of play. Man you must be a peach to be around!!

Actually, Fenix IS a 'peach' to be around, and actually play GW1 with.
His knowledge, and constructive critisism (sp) is very beneficial to all that associate with him in a team.

OT: Personalities aside, GW needed a good shake up, and revamp (pun intended..lawl) to keep the game from going completely one sided. (farming).

EDIT: yep, English still feels weird in my mouth, and on my keyboard.

Robster Lobster · Feb 20, 2010, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

With this update, as noted on wiki, it will trigger on demonic flesh, and result in 1 trigger of the skill per Exhausting Assault.

In the notes for Demonic Flesh it says, "It will steal health from other foes adjacent to your target whenever you use a skill that targets a foe", which I would assume makes it similar to Splinter Weapon and will not trigger on your target.

Trip555 · Feb 20, 2010, 05:38 PM // 17:38

I honestly dont think that the people that like all these changes, do Foundry of Fail or Four Horseman.

Basically ANet takes away heavy tanking that also balanced groups relied on, and gives us ridiculous buffs, that most likely wont make it into the meta.

FoxBat · Feb 20, 2010, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

What we see now is that there is an intention not only to destroy a solo build (SF) but also to make it impossible to grind in small 2-3 player teams.

SF, Obs Flesh, and 600/smite are FASTER than most full parties.

It's funny you bring up 55 because that isn't being targeted at all and probably never will be. Feel free to grind mobs with shield of judgement at a pace actually appropriate for 1 character.

Del · Feb 20, 2010, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

i think that TK should learn to communicate with the playerbase.

being open with the player base isn't the test krewe's job, it's anet's job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

i've heard this very sentence dozens of times. seriously. and it usually is said by people who a) never played mesmers in end-game, b) played gimmicks for two areas and moved back to their main warrior or necromancer.
if you say that primairy mesmers aren't terrible if one knows how to use them, please use one of the mesmer threads (links posted in the fourth post in this very thread) and enlighten us how should we use our primairies.
if not, i think it's fine to disregard your mesmer-related posts in this thread.

That sentence is truth. it isn't hard to pve on a mes, the only issue is they don't kill mobs as quickly as other classes, because it's not what they were designed to do, they were more oriented for pvp, so if for some arbitrary reason you have to play mes, don't complain about the way they function in pve. complaining about mesmers being ineffective is like buying a toaster and complaining that you can't shank people with it.

upier · Feb 20, 2010, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

By allowing such builds to exist, you're not giving people the option to farm areas for money, you're FORCING them.

Nope, forcing us to farm happened with the introduction of grind as content.

Sifow Chan · Feb 20, 2010, 06:14 PM // 18:14

The skills over all look good except for one thing. You continue to make Paragon skills suck more. I would much rather have Cracked Armor than -20 armor because you can remove it.

I suggest making -20 armor in PvE and Cracked Armor in PvP. In PvP teams people won't waste energy to remove this but the player can choose to remove this themselves if they want to bring skills in builds to remove it. Paragons go down easier than Warriors and sometimes Rangers with stances so I'm not even sure why you think this skill is OP but if there has to be armor reduction make it Cracked armor in PvP.

That aside, Why do you guys always ignore Paragons and Dervishes? Disgraceful. If you're going to change tactics and hammer mastery you can change Leadership too. Leadership has so many horrible skills not to mention the energy gain sucks in small groups making Paragons not wanted in parties under 8.

We get that Nightfall professions are your least favorite Anet but there are players that like to play them you know. Stop babying the others ALL the time.

Desert Rose · Feb 20, 2010, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

in pve? with heroes or a decent monk? seriously, i mean, seriously?
even with other people, usually cracked armor is taken off from my imbagon as soon as it comes up...

I often use paragon heroes, usually 2-4 (depends if I play with another human player or not), with "Find Their Weakness!", "Go for the Eyes!", "Stand Your Ground!", Anthem of Envy, Anthem of Flame Cracked Armor gets applied so often that I only use deep condition removal skills "It's just a flesh wound.", Cautery Signet, Pure Was Li Ming, otherwise vital conditions like blind gets covered over and over again.
And besides, paragons have an extrem high AL to begin with, they don't suffer much about -20 armor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sifow Chan

We get that Nightfall professions are your least favorite Anet but there are players that like to play them you know. Stop babying the others ALL the time.

Paragons got a huge buff alongside with ritualists a couple of months ago, but every buff to paragons is meanigless if the imbagon build still exists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

that's why i've tried to contact the TK over two months ago, but got answered 'TK member list is secret, no one will ever get in touch with them unless they decide so, as you never will have the need to talk with them' or something along there lines.

Many TK member are active on the forums, if you have good suggestions post them on one of the fan forums, the TK members will read them and if they think they are good they will suggest them inside the TK.

IlikeGW · Feb 20, 2010, 06:35 PM // 18:35

That people still even care about this game's updates is funny, when there's nothing like real content in the last few years.

Garreth MacLeod · Feb 20, 2010, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviant Angel

So after 5 years, you want to finally tell us that doing anything with less than 8 people is unacceptable?

We were using SF for farming before it was maintainable. It got the job done and we could not gather every monster on the map and tank them until our fingers turned blue. Why it wasn't killed shortly after the discovery that it could be maintained indefinitely is something that always confused me. I'm all for that nerf.

The 600 on the other hand... seriously? You need 1-2 other players to make it work and even then you're a paper tank. When I have another player or a hero sucking up loot that could be mine, it's not solo farming. Do you also want to punish me for taking a full H/H group at 3am when the few friends that still play are sleeping and the outposts have 3 people that don't speak a word of english?

As for the monks that run dungeons... 30 mins with obnoxious teenagers is much better than the hour or more that you would spend with those same obnoxious teenagers in a balanced group. Besides, majority of the "runners" ask you to bring damage and/or heals. It doesn't matter if it's to kill the last few monsters, heal the smiter that has the enchants on bass ackwards, or whatever else. It's not really a run if you have to participate. Argue with me all you want, but it's pretty much paying somebody to lead the group and tank.

I've accomplished all my PvE goals and I own pretty much everything I ever dreamed of owning. I have a feeling that most of the anti-farming crowd is in the same boat. It's easier to be against something when it's of absolutely no use to you anymore, amirite? We saw the same thing happen with Ursan. People used it to accomplish their goals, and then suddenly everybody was on the "OMG Kill it with fire before other people get the titles and stuff I have!" bandwagon.

Unfortunately, the damage to the game and it's economy has been done. Unless you're planning to give us some good reasons to keep doing dungeons and elite missions, you're doing nothing more than putting a bandaid on a severely infected wound.

The rewards for doing them are far from... rewarding. Give us some real incentives for completing them. A couple of gems or greens with generic stats and skins aren't going to make anybody want to spend an hour or more of their life on a mission. You really wonder why people are favoring runners over balanced groups?

If farming is going to be frowned upon, how would you prefer that players make money? Begging? Scamming? Playing through the storyline over and over? Doing the same zquests over and over? Cage dancing in LA?

Besides the 600/smite thing, I think some of the other updates look interesting.

I really hope you know what you're doing.

Thank you for saying how I feel.

I think the folks at Anet have also accomplished all their pve goals and so they don't care what others go through. If you follow any of them on twitter, you know they are playing a lot of other games. Never see one of them mention playing gw though. Maybe if they still played they'd care more about chasing off half the player base. Empty and half-empty outposts aren't a whole lot of fun.

Shayne Hawke · Feb 20, 2010, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

is Test Krewe an official part of ANet, getting paid and stuff?

We're not getting paid for this, not even in GW gold. Although, I'd consider being able to talk almost directly with the Devs in-game as reward enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

i think that TK should learn to communicate with the playerbase... <snip> i don't know who actually prepares skill updates now - TK, ANet or both - and to what excess, but i think that TK has a lot to say and should be more open to the playerbase, than ANet.

You can pretty much consider the prelim notes as our way of communicating with you. Anything else... I'd love to bring up some of the skill adjustments that weren't listed in the prelim updates, whether it be on the reason that we decided a certain skill wasn't necessary of being changed in this update, or whether a change would be too tough to code, or whatever the case. The bottom line though is that I can't, or I'm at least not supposed to.

Of course, your best way of communicating with us then is most likely to be commenting on the notes in this thread, and we can then pull important and constructive feedback from this thread to bring up within the Krewe and get things further straightened out.

Fap · Feb 20, 2010, 06:42 PM // 18:42

hey reggie, hire 20 more people to work on skill updates, thank you.